Justice at last for the forgotten victims of sectarian murder in Dundalk
Search Allof Ireland.com
Questions in the Dáil to the Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern - 13 February 2001 on the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings.
1. Mr. Quinn asked
the Taoiseach the progress made to date by the Barron Inquiry into the Dublin,
Monaghan and Dundalk bombings; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
2. Mr. Higgins
(Dublin West) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the investigations by the
Barron Inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings; and if he will
make a statement on the matter.
3. Caoimhghín Ó
Caoláin (Sinn Fein) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on progress in the
inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings of May 1974.
4. Mr. Sargent
(Green Party) asked the Taoiseach if he will report on the current inquiry into
the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings.
The Taoiseach: I
propose to take Questions Nos. 1 to 4, inclusive, together.
Judge Barron is the
sole member of the Commission of Inquiry into the Dublin/Monaghan and Dundalk
bombings which is independent and as such he is not required to report progress.
However, I understand that his inquiries are progressing satisfactorily.
advertisement - Mr. Hamilton had previously placed an advertisement in the
newspapers - was placed in daily and Sunday newspapers, North and South, in
mid-January, appealing for anyone with relevant information to contact the
commission. The commission is anxious that everyone with information involved in
the production of television programmes and press articles relating to the
bombings should contact and co-operate with the commission as a matter of
Does the Taoiseach share the concern of many people about the slowness of this
inquiry, notwithstanding the unfortunate circumstances that led to the change of
chairperson, and has he conveyed to Judge Barron the sense of urgency that is
shared by all in the House? Can he give any indication as to when some degree of
finality can be brought to the issue, whether it is to indicate that nothing
further can be done or that there is a positive line of inquiry? The people who
contacted me are very anxious that a sense of urgency be injected into these
proceedings and that some degree of certainty, even if negative, is obtained.
The Taoiseach: I
do agree. It is urgent and it was hoped we would have had the report of the
commission of inquiry by now and it would have been referred as promised to the
Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights meeting in
public session to consider what could be done. An effort is being made to go
through everything possible.
I thank Judge
Barron who understands this and would like to complete his work. He is
undertaking a very thorough examination involving a fact finding assessment on
all aspects of the bombings and their sequel including facts, circumstances,
causes and perpetrators of the bombings, the Garda investigations and looking at
the papers, including the relevant papers that he can receive from Northern
Ireland. He is dealing with the new Secretary of State, Dr. John Reid, to see
how he can assist. He is particularly anxious to talk to all of the journalists,
particularly those involved with the "Hidden Hand - The Forgotten
Massacre" television documentary. New advertisements were placed in January
for this reason. I understand he is still seeking other papers in order to
conduct a thorough investigation. As the late Judge Hamilton said, the whole
effort is to use this period to see if enough evidence and substantive papers
are available to see what the committee can usefully do. I hope we reach that
stage as quickly as possible.
(Dublin West): I underline the urgency of the situation. As time goes on some
people in positions of authority are getting older and some are deceased so
there is a crucial urgency that this is brought to a speedy conclusion. The
Victims Commission and the former Tánaiste, Mr. Wilson, reported the belief
among many of those they interviewed, the relatives or victims of the
atrocities, that hidden hands were at work in organising the deaths of their
loved ones or in protecting their identity. There was a suspicion that
Governments here were less than enthusiastic in pressing the British Government
for the real truth of possible involvement by their state forces. Have the Garda
authorities given all information that they have to the inquiry on the Dublin,
Monaghan and Dundalk bombings? Has there been any investigation by the
Taoiseach's office as to whether there was evidence that previous
Administrations did not pursue the British Government very strongly in
attempting to get at the truth of whether there was security force involvement?
Does the Taoiseach know what co-operation the British Government has so far
extended to this inquiry? Have all the relevant papers been given? Are some
papers being withheld? What is the Government doing to ensure that all
documentation and everything known to the British Government and security forces
is handed over so that the truth can be discovered?
The Taoiseach: I
share the view of all Deputies that we must do everything we can within the
extensive terms of reference agreed in consultation with the Justice for the
Forgotten group. A solid basis for discovering the truth is the object of the
exercise. I am very grateful to Judge Barron for accepting this task. It will
involve an enormous amount of paper work to search back through the years. To
the best of my knowledge, his requests for documents and assistance from the
Garda Síochána have been answered. Judge Barron is not answerable to me on
this matter and he will issue his report in due time.
Secretary of State, Mr. Mandelson, promised that the papers from Northern
Ireland would be sent to the inquiry. A certain amount but not all of them have
been sent. These papers are not being withheld, rather they have not yet been
passed on. There is co-operation from everyone involved in this inquiry. Public
notices were published in January asking for anyone with information to come
forward, particularly journalists and photographers who covered the events.
There is an enormous amount of records and this House has decided that the
commission of inquiry is the best way to deal with this. Even though time has
moved on, all the records are available and they will be examined by Judge
When did the Taoiseach last raise this matter with Prime Minister Blair? There
is a perception that the British Government has been less than co-operative
because of the allegations of collusion between the RUC, British military
intelligence and the UVF. Is this a matter the Taoiseach has vigorously pursued
with the Prime Minister?
The Taoiseach: It
is. I have raised this issue over many years and I was anxious that we pursue it
in this House and try to get to the bottom of it. I understand the Deputy's
concern. Over the years I have had contacts with various groups and
organisations dealing with Bloody Sunday of January 1972. I am aware of the
concerns that these groups still have. They are worried that the rifles used on
that day have been destroyed. Thousands of photographs taken that day are
missing and many other records do not seem to be available. While the Bloody
Sunday tribunal set up by the British Government is doing good work, the
Ministry of Defence, another arm of the state, is not providing material. This
is a big issue in Northern Ireland. I requested the former Secretary of State,
Mr. Mandelson, and I will ask the present Secretary of State, that any
information should be provided to this commission of inquiry.
I have raised the
matters of Bloody Sunday and the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings on
numerous occasions. All available information will be communicated to the
investigating authorities by the British Government. Experience has shown that
usually not all information is available to Governments.
Mrs. Owen: Given
the current relationship with the North, does the Taoiseach accept his role in
urging those who are required to co-operate with the Barron and Saville
inquiries to do so ? A number of high-profile republicans are refusing to
co-operate with the Bloody Sunday inquiry. If Judge Barron has not got all the
information he needs at the end of the inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and
Dundalk bombings, will the Taoiseach consider a sworn inquiry ? Before he became
Attorney General, Michael McDowell urged the Government to do so. Has he advised
the Taoiseach to keep an open mind on having a full sworn inquiry ?
The Taoiseach: These
issues were debated at length in this House two years ago. Deputy Quinn, myself
and others worked on this issue. A full sworn inquiry cannot take place without
having some basic documents or facts to work from. The commission of inquiry is
thoroughly examining whether such a position can be reached, as we hope that it
can. Judge Barron is continuing the excellent work of Judge Hamilton, who spent
nine months working extremely hard on this. It is not an easy task. We shall
wait for the report. If no facts can be obtained, a sworn tribunal in such
circumstances will not be much use. I hope we will not be in that position.
Judge Barron and
his team are examining all available evidence. This is the time to bring forward
any shred of information, not in a television programme following the report of
the inquiry. Long years of suffering have passed for the families of the
victims. It is not a very long time ago, however, in terms of people's memories
and the knowledge they may have retained. It is possible that people who have
retired, who could not speak before, can speak now. We urge such people to help
Judge Barron and his team.
Mrs. Owen: What
about people who will not co-operate ?
The Taoiseach: Both
republicans and the British army should co-operate. Successive Governments
fought hard for this enormously costly inquiry so these issues do not go on
forever. Issues regarding Bloody Sunday are deeply felt by the community. People
should co-operate to enable the inquiry to do its job.
Mr. G. Mitchell:
Regarding the need for people to come forward to give information, the Taoiseach
will be aware that the Saville inquiry has given anonymity to certain witnesses.
As a result, more people have offered to give evidence. Has the Barron inquiry
considered allowing persons to give evidence anonymously, or has it offered
anonymity to any person in return for evidence ?
The Taoiseach: Judge
Barron has not given me an up to date, day by day account, so I do not know the
answer to that question. From inquiries in Northern Ireland, I am sure that if
people were prepared to help, Justice Barron or any of the inquiry team would be
glad to talk about those issues. It is important these people get to the truth,
and every consideration will be given to them, but I would not expect Justice
Barron to raise that issue with me.
Has the attention of the Taoiseach been drawn to a statement made in the
Northern Ireland Assembly by a leading member of Sinn Féin that there is
evidence of collusion between the British Government, loyalist paramilitaries
and the Irish Government in relation to the Dublin and Monaghan bombings? Would
the Taoiseach like to comment on that allegation and will he bring those remarks
to the attention of the commission?
The Taoiseach: I
presume they are the remarks made during the Northern Ireland Assembly debate.
Last night, yes.
The Taoiseach: I
have read the full text of that debate. There were allegations of collusion
involving the Garda, the Irish Government and many others in the course of that
debate but no credence could be given to any of it. When members of the SDLP
sought an amendment and asked people to substantiate any of the issues raised,
not one iota of evidence was produced that could be construed as something to
follow. The contents of that fairly lengthy debate have been made available and
I am sure they will be looked at by Justice Barron.
From his reading of the report of the debates, would the Taoiseach agree that
this was a very specific allegation made by a leading Sinn Féin member who said
there was evidence of it? Will the Taoiseach ensure that no stone is left
unturned, no file or trail left unexamined, to ensure there is a full
investigation into these extremely serious allegations? It is also important
that the gentleman who made the allegations be asked to supply the necessary
evidence to the Commission and that a demand is made that he put his money where
his mouth is.
The Taoiseach: Any
of the allegations made during the debate should be looked at. People from any
side of the debate with evidence that would be helpful to Justice Barron's
commission of inquiry should bring that evidence forward. The text of that
debate will be made available to Justice Barron. I would not agree with Deputy
Currie that people have made very specific-------
He said there was evidence of collusion.
The Taoiseach: Just
about everybody in that debate said there was evidence of collusion on one side
or another but nothing specific was said. When they were challenged by SDLP
colleagues to produce facts in the debate, nobody did, unfortunately. I am not
responsible for the investigation. It is for Justice Barron and his colleagues
to try to find any shred of information they can to get to the truth.
(Dublin West): The author of the victims commission, Mr. Wilson, thought it
worth pointing out that many believe Garda investigations into the Dublin,
Monaghan and Dundalk bombings were stymied for political reasons. It is believed
that the Administration here did not want to embarrass the British Government in
case there was collusion, or perhaps they knew of collusion. Will former
Taoisigh and former Ministers for Justice be called to give evidence to the
commission? Does the Taoiseach think they should be called and will he call on
them to come forward to give any information they have to the commission? Are
there Cabinet documents or minutes that might throw light on a matter which
causes unease among people here, and will they, or should they, be made
available to the Commission as well?
The Taoiseach: All
Government papers, all documents in the Department of Justice and all the papers
within the Garda will be looked at and examined. I know the point that Deputy
Higgins has made. I raised it in this House many years ago as a question, just
as he is asking a question now. The question is how so many people could be
killed in horrendous and barbaric acts of terrorism on one day on 17 May 1974
and the inquiry be wrapped up, while the people went back to their various bases
in 1976. That is what the Deputy is saying. That is one of the reasons we have
agreed that these matters be looked at. I do not know any of the answers and any
papers that are there on this matter can be looked at.
Looking back at it
now, 25 years later, it appears strange. There were difficult times and
difficult events and in 1975 there were more bombings. The Dundalk bombing
occurred on 19 September 1975 and then there were other acts in 1976, a very
difficult year. There was the killing of the British ambassador here and all the
other events. It is not that there was nothing going on but the people who were
involved with this were experiencing a huge threat to the State. I am not here
to justify these matters. I know what people have said to me and what people
Judge Barron is an
eminent person and it is for him to seek whatever co-operation he requires in
this regard. Don Mullan's book contains an enormous amount of the detail on
this, as well as other books, articles and television programmes, all of which
have been examined and are being followed through by Judge Barron.
Is the Taoiseach awaiting the outcome of the Barron inquiry before implementing
the recommendations of John Wilson's Victims Commission which were published in
July 1999 in so far as they relate to the relatives and victims of the Dublin
and Monaghan bombings? The relatives are concerned that a number of the
recommendations have not been implemented in relation to anyone, but
particularly in relation to those victims and relatives of the Dublin and
The Taoiseach: Not
for my part - they are not related. The implementation of that report is a
matter for the Minister for Justice. As far as I am concerned, Judge Barron's
work is not holding up any of that report.
Will the Taoiseach ensure that the recommendations are implemented forthwith,
particularly in relation to compensation and other assistance? The report was
made in July 1999 and the recommendations have not been implemented. Can he
ensure that they will be?
The Taoiseach: I
will raise that matter with the Minister for Justice.
Mr. J. O'Keeffe:
The Taoiseach will probably agree there is probably evidence that, if it were
available, would be helpful to the inquiry but that evidence may be outside the
jurisdiction. What is the situation in relation to such evidence? Have there
been any discussions at a political level in particular with the UK in relation
to making such evidence available to the inquiry?
The Taoiseach: I
am no wiser than the Deputy, but I have never met a person who believes all the
information on this is available within the jurisdiction. Everybody I have ever
met concerning this issue over the decades believes some information is outside
the jurisdiction. All we can do is ask for assistance from the British
Government, particularly the Northern Ireland Office and the Secretary of State.
That has been done and to the best of my knowledge some of the data has been
made available. All of the reports indicate that most of the data was in
Northern Ireland. However, I do not know whether that data will be made
available or whether it exists in the first place.
Mr. J. O'Keeffe:
Have the reports, including the RUC report, which have been available to the UK
authorities been made available to the Barron inquiry?
The Taoiseach: The
terms of reference asked for co-operation from the relevant Northern Ireland
authorities, including the RUC. This was one of the first issues on which Mr.
Justice Hamilton followed through.
Background to Questions
The Irish Victims Commission Report, A Place and a Name, compiled by Mr John Wison, a former TD and Irish cabinet minister, seen here in a screenshot from an Irish independent TV3 20/20 current affairs programme investigation of the Seamus Ludlow murder, was released at a press conference in Dublin on 5 August 1999.
While members of Justice for the Forgotten, made up of victims and survivors of the Dublin and Monaghan atrocities of 17 May 1974 and their supporters, were present at the release of the report, the Ludlow, Rooney and Watters families were absent. Thus the Dublin and Monaghan families were able to make their own position clear in a very public way while the three Dundalk families' own opinions on the Wilson Report went unheard.
While the families welcomed the Irish Victims Commission's call for an inquiry there was anger at its recommendations that any inquiry should be held in private and the findings not published. This idea was taken up by the Dublin government.
Taoiseach Bertie Ahern TD announced on Sunday, 19th. December, 1999, that the outgoing Chief Justice, Mr. Liam Hamilton was being invited to "undertake a thorough examination, involving fact finding and assessment of all aspects of the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings and their sequel, including
This was the closest that the Dublin authorities had come to acceding to the various families' demands for a public inquiry in those cases, but it remained to be seen if the formula laid out in Mr. Ahern's statement was acceptable to all concerned.
The Dublin government initially said that it intended that the then Hamilton inquiry will "have full access to all files and papers of Government Departments and the Garda Siochana. The Government will also direct that all members of the Public Service and the Garda Siochana extend their full co-operation to him. Furthermore, the Taoiseach intends that the Government will seek the co-operation of the British authorities with the Chief Justice's examination.
The following excerpt from the Statement by the Taoiseach on the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk Bombings (19th December, 1999) gives further details of the private process that the Minister for Justice had recommended to the families of Jack Rooney and Hugh Watters:
The then Irish Minister for Justice, Mr. John O'Donoghue, formally recommended the private judicial inquiry with a follow-up public Joint Oirachtas Committee hearing,
Thus the Victims Commissioner's recommendation of a private inquiry in August 1999 inspired the establishment of the private Hamilton Inquiry (conducted since October 2000 by former Supreme Court judge Mr Justice Henry Barron, upon the sudden retirement on health grounds by Mr Justice Liam Hamilton, who died on 29 November).
Mr Justice Barron resumed the private inquiry into the Dublin, Monaghan and the Dundalk bombings. This was not the public inquiry that the Rooney and Watters families had hoped for.
In a press release from the Minister for Justice in Dublin on the Victim Commissioner's Report, A Place and a Name, it was noted that "interested parties" were invited to "send their comments on the report" to the Secretary General, Department of Justice to arrive by 5 November 1999.
The families of the late Jack Rooney and Hugh Watters, victims of the Dundalk bombing, and Ludlow family, added their support to a press release issued by Margaret Urwin, Secretary of Justice for the Forgotten, on 13 June 2000, in response to Mr. Ahern's, and also his predecessor Albert Reynolds', recent statements calling for public inquiries in the Six Counties.
The statement commented that their:
Dundalk Democrat, 28 June 2003: Dundalk families concerned over Barron report delay
The Taoiseach admitted this week that nearly €4000,000 has been spent on the commission into the Dublin, Monaghan and Dundalk bombings, but the report has not been completed.
This has angered the Dundalk families. Maura McKeever, whose father, Jack Rooney died along with Hugh Watters in the bombing at Kay's Tavern on 19th December 1975, is concerned over the delay.
Use this link to read the full story. >>>
Dundalk Democrat, 8 November 2003: Dundalk bombing and
Ludlow murder ignored
The families of Seamus Ludlow and the two men murdered in the Dundalk bombing have said they are disappointed that the draft Barron report failed to mention the County Louth atrocities.
The Barron Inquiry, which was commissioned by Taoiseach Bertie Ahern in 1999, investigated the circumstances surrounding the Dublin and Monaghan bombings, as well as the 1975 Dundalk bombing and the murder of Mountpleasant man, Seamus Ludlow.
But the draft report only referred to the 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings, in which 33 people died. The Taoiseach said he hoped a report into other cases under Justice Barron’s remit would be completed by the New Year.
Margaret Watters, whose father Hugh, was one of two men killed when a car bomb exploded in Crowe Street on December 19 1975, said she was “saddened” by the way the families found out about the case’s exclusion from the report.
Use this link to read the full story. >>>
The Dundalk Democrat, 20 December 2003: Bombing families fear truth will never be known
By Anne Campbell
The families of the two men killed in the Dundalk bombing of 1975 now fear the truth behind the murders may never be known.
Maura McKeever, whose father, Jack Rooney, died with tailor, Hugh Watters, in the car bomb attack in Crowe Street, was speaking following the publication of the Barron Report into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings.
Two months before Justice Barron published the report into the 1974 bombings in which 34 people died, the Dundalk bereaved families and the relatives of murdered forestry worker, Seamus Ludlow, were informed that the part of the report relating to them would not be made public before the New Year.
Use this link to read the full story. >>>
Download the Barron Inquiry Report into the 17 May 1974 Dublin and Monaghan bombings, (pdf file)
Produced in association with the Ludlow Family.
Last edited: 03 May 2004 19:55:35